I hate to dig up old topics, but I was perusing the Graveyard threads and saw one about taking the Mafia down.

If anyone is considering actually trying this, you should know that the police on all levels are running undercover operations to fight their influence. You stand a higher risk of impeding an investigation of the Mafia than of impeding a drug bust, simply because there are more undercover agents.

Also, the Mafia has many legitimate businesses. Your venture into Mafia territory could lead you to investigate a perfectly legal establishment, thus wasting your time and still risking getting killed.

As far as the risk to yourself and family, there are far worse things that can be done than killing you. The Mafia is very creative in the way they handle annoyances. The painful truth is, rlsh do not have the authority or the resources to do significant harm to their operations, and will not be seen as a threat until they get to that level of organization. Be prepared to have your eyes gouged out, your fingers clipped off, and your asshole cemented or burned shut. Not kidding.

The Mafia is not as prevalent in the USA as it used to be. The largest concentration is on the east coast, but nationwide there are around 3,000 active family members. L:et the cops handle them.

Good point there Gauge. They are alot different then simple street punks that we might encounter. These guys have connections and they have money. They will do alot more than just kill you if you screw with them. Also, there might just be a seperate thread talking about things the Mafia can do to you as punishment...jkjk It would be a fun idea though.

Atlas, that does sound like a fun idea for a thread. The cemented butt was not my brainchild, but from an actual mafia case. The victim was cemented up then tied to a chair and muffled. Of course, he died because he couldn't relieve himself and was found days later because of the smell.

The best way to fight something like the mob is to not be afraid if you have to testify. They thrive on fear, thats their only "weapon". Take away the fear and they are nothing more then guys with guns who cant shoot very well

whether it's the mafia or gangs like the bloods or crypts, (who are a lot more active and dangerous than the mafia ever was) this is what we do.
if you think that something is too dangerous for you then dont atttempt it.

for some of us it's a part of what we do.

just venturing on to the street can get any one of us killed. taking on gangs, drugs, prostition or any of the hundreds of crimes and problems could be fatal.
this isnt a game for most of us.
this isnt something where most of us would pick and choose what we fight.

we do what we can. irregardless. we know the risk and accept them as part of the territory.

Here's a thought...

If you are cleaning your house you dont start by pumping out the spetic system. You begin by picking up the trash, gathering the dirty dishes, and other little tasks...You move methodically through your home dusting, sweeping, and cleaning until all is finished.

If you are cleaning up your town/city you dont start by taking down Carl Grissom (Batman 89) You start by looking for what needs done at the bottom and work your way up. Help the homeless, patrol the neighborhoods, and (yes I'm going there) pick up the garbage.

You cannot change the world from the top down. When you take out the man at the top, his subordinates move upward and things continue as always. When you take out the problems at the bottom, you sweep the rug out from under all of them.

Mostly I would say stop wasting time LOOKING for big fish to catch. If all you want to do is feed your ego by making claims that your taking down the MAFIA - which the FBI, CIA, and other agencies have been trying to do for decades - then perhaps you are in this for the wrong reasons. If you are in this to serve your fellow man, then serve him where he is at and stop trying to insinuate that you are doing some comic book fiction nonsense and taking out major crime cartels.

If that sounds rude - I apologize. Please feel free to ignore my advice and enjoy the butt cementings that are sure to follow.

Thanatos and Crossfire the Crusader,

I kind of hope that reply wasn't meant for me.
Because all I was saying is that you shall never ever underestimate something like the mafia or a gang.
You feel like you can bring one down? Awesome if you can! Seriously makes the world a better place. And as long as you are aware of the fact that those people can cause a certain amount of danger for your health (aka death) everything is dandy.

crossrife said it best I think.

here here crossfire

I say, don't mess with gangs. We're not properly equipped, trained, nor organized like police to do this sort of thing. It's one thing to say you want to be an RLSH. It's another thing to help people and be looked on as a costumed savior. Then it's an entirely new thing when you say that you want to take down the Mafia. To me that is irresponsible and stupid. We're not police officers. We're simply ordinary people who put on costumes and go out and help people. We save a guy or two from a random accident or mugging, sure, but we never tackle anything bigger than ourselves. It's a silly thing to think that because we believe in Justice, that it makes us liable to take down one of the world's biggest known factions of organized crime. This is real life. Leave taking down the Mafia to Batman and his fantastical stories.

@Spades - that was addressed to "whom it may concern" not to anyone in particular.

As for underestimating the Mafia...what about not underestimating ANYONE? A homeless person with a big stick can kill you just as dead as a professional Sicilian assassin or a gang member. BUT if you do things with a good measure of common sense, you can probably avoid the sticks, bats, knives, guns, and other impliments of death that might otherwise ruin your perfect day.

as long as the cops don't want to help our hands are tied .that is why i have resulted to the use of metaphysical powers most of the time.

actually some of us are even better trained than the police. there are some of us with some real world experience that comes in handy when doing this sort of thing.

while your right you cant go head to head with a gang, you can use your brains and work to take them down over time.

patience is the key. watching and learning and passing on what you know to the police help more than you would imagine.

Let's be clear: The Mafia and other organized crime interests are too large for any one rlsh to try to take down. This is why the police have interstate task forces, undercover agents, and special training among other things to tackle this problem.

Saving a person from a mugger is substantially different from planning a strategic takedown of organized crime. One person cannot do it alone, with respect to all your skills and intelligence. If it were possible, it would have been done already.

It is important to note, also, that some organized crime generates large amounts of money that goes to various government agencies. Some crimes get a free pass when enough cash is involved. Sorry to say, but it's true.

I agree that if you have information, you should pass it to police, but I would recommend against an active pursuit. Rules of evidence and the possibility of corrupting an ongoing investigation must take precedence over our zeal to bust a number of different criminal enterprises. If you are not properly trained, you could cause a monster to walk free.

I'm working against some very large gangs here in the Vancouver area. I'm learning their patterns of operation and attempting to follow the money as it moves up the line. trying to take out the dealers and middlemen whould be useless as they would be replaced in no time. by following upwards I am able to establish connections that can be passed on.
this isnt something that is going to make any difference for a number of years. it will take some time to move up and collect the info that police can act on.
also, as for myself I know that any evidence I gather would not be admissable in any court, BUT, it can be used by the police to establish 'probable cause to investigate further' and alow them to gather the evidence they need for courts.
yes, you have to follow established procedure and documentation if you are going to be regarded as 'a reliable source of information' by the police.

a lot, if not most of the people here have some form of training either from their private lives or training they have taken to further their RLSH activities.
several of us have backgrounds of doing just this sort of thing.

never underestimate what one person can do. never underestimate what a group of dedicated individuals can do when working together.

when you say if it were possible it would have been done already-it has by many individuals over the years. the difference is now there is a community (us) of people who can network and share information over the internet and make actions such as this a more 'workable' possiblity than just working by yourself.

I think you are raising some good points that people should consider before taking on any kind of action of this nature, especially those who are new to this.



edit: lots of typos

definitely, lay groundwork. and be "super-aware"....... if you get caught up or mess up something Law Enforcement has going..... game over. "Organized Crime" is no "kiddie pool". there quite a few of these types of organizations with long and illustrious histories. "concrete cracks" are just dipping a cheek into that murky water

Ah, let me clarify my position. I only mean to say that one should not try to physically take on organized crime or do any investigating of a sort that would normally require a search warrant or otherwise violate the 4th amendment. Following a paper trail, money trail, or any other data is safe and more effective than physical pursuit as far as rlsh is concerned. Good point, Thanatos. Sorry for any confusion.

in my case, and most likely Thanatos as well, words of caution for newbies that think this is a "How To" or "Tip" thread. it's obviously not, but some folks are thick.