Cops not fans of real-life superheroes

Published: Jan. 18, 2009 at 1:33 PM

SAN DIEGO, Jan. 18 (UPI) -- Cops in California's San Diego County say the presence of two real-life costumed crime fighters is acceptable only under the correct conditions.
A police spokesman in Vista Chula </FONT>,Calif., said when San Diego would-be superheroes Mr. Xtreme and MidKnight take to the streets to protect citizens, they should focus on non-violent forms of crime-fighting, the San Diego Union-Tribune reported Saturday.

"Anyone who goes out and tries to assist law enforcement by handing out fliers and being proactive against the criminals is appreciated," spokesman Bernard Gonzales said.
"But when you start physically involving yourself in crime fighting, that's vigilantism."

San Diego police Capt. </FONT></FONT>Chris Ball agreed, saying the two amateur crime-fighters should stick to simply reporting crimes and serving as witnesses.
But Mr. Xtreme, whose identity is a secret, said he and his fellow crime-fighting members of an online superhero community are well within their legal rights</FONT></FONT></FONT>.
"We don't harass people, don't violate their civil rights. First and foremost, we prevent crime," he said. "We do what we are allowed to do legally as citizens."

© 2009 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/01/18/Cops_not_fans_of_real-life_superheroes/UPI-64571232303637/


The Morning Show with Mike and Juliet were talking about Real Life Superheroes and the if it was ok for us to be fighting crime.
http://www.mandjshow.com/videos/the-verdict-9

Stories like these bring up a lot of important topics.
It brings up the topics of accountablity to laws, law enforcement, and most importantly the public.

Look at Jeanine Piro's reaction
"who are these spandex perverts with masks on."

Geraldo has our back because he knows about us and had Citizen Prime and I on his show.

We all know there are a bunch of people who call themselves real life superheroes, but are not responsible or respectful. My fear is these people are going to do something stupid or a young kid is going to get the wrong idea probably supported by a group of irresponsible real life superheroes and they are going to hurt someone or get themselves hurt.

Something like this could be really hurtful to everyone who does this.

Look at the reactions in the early stages, we need to work hard to be accountable & responsible for what we do.

If the law does not support us things are going to be tough and if the public doesn't support us we are in a world of trouble.

How do we handle this?
What do we do?

While I am relatively new to this and have focused mainly on the charity aspect
of the RLSH movement, this very subject is of grave concern to me. There is mo
doubt that we are trying to push our way through a briarweb of people of see us
as frauds, troublemakers, lunatics, or comedic rejects. This does not apply to
everyone as there are those people who have come to understand what the
movement is about but sadly those are the exception and not the norm. We also
have to be vigilant for members who jump into the RLSH movement and just use
it as an excuse to crack skulls every chance they get. A few bad incidents and
it will only reinforce the negative stigma that we are trying to wrok against. So I
am completely with you on accountability and responsibility. While I am against
some strict, overbearing code of conduct for the movement ( mainly because I
think it would breed frustration and infighting as well as be difficult to enforce
across the whole movement ) I think there should definitely be some loose
guidelines to steer people in a the right direction.

IMHO, the best way to win people over is to start with charitable works and
work with community awareness groups who also want to combat crime but
not necessarily in a confrontational manner. Until the movement establishes
a stronger form of credibility with the public and law enforcement agnecies, I
am afraid that the prevailing negative stereotyping will continue. So yes, it is
of paramount importance that we win over public perception which I think will
help win over law enforcement.

As far as combating crime, I like to use this as an example. If I suspect that
there is a crack house in my neighborhood then I am not going to don my
costume and go busting down doors and trying to crack some skulls. I'd first
use surveillance; study the habits of the people I see go in and out as well as
look for any clues to help me out ( cameres for the win ). If I hear something, I pretend like I did not or act clueless ( anonymity is an excellent shield and acting like you lack awareness makes criminals fall into a false sense of comfort. ) After a while I'd bring my evidence to the cops and let them take it from there. That's
what I call passive enforcement. Now the other side of the coin is if I see a person
getting mugged or God forbid a woman getting dragged into an alley for attempted
rape or something. At that point, I would immediately jump into the fray and get
physical with the violater because we're talking about the immediate and potential
loss of life of grievous harm to an innocent. I'm not going to stand by and let the
woman get mugged or raped if I can help it - that would be callous and cowardly.
That's what I call aggressive enforcement.

A few weeks ago, I saw evidence of a potential chop shop for cars operating
literally across the street from my home. I had a feeling of what was going on so
I just watched and took notes while inside my home and peaking thru a window.
It would always be late at nite, anywhere from 10 PM to 3:30 AM, that they
would do their thing. One night, I got fed up and I waited for them to be very
active and obvious and I called the cops and gave them my note summary by
phone and asked them to send out a car. Unfortunately one of the main cars &
people working this thing drove away before the cops arrived but when they
cops did arrive, the three guys that were left there jumped on their cell phones
nervously and ran off like a bat out of hell. They were friggin scared. From that
day on, nothing similiar to hthat has gone down in or in front of that house.
Maybe they moved it somewhere else but at least it's out of my neighborhood.
They were also using the front street as a drag strip for their cars, speeding at
insane and deadly speeds. That has also not happened since I called.

So to me, the bottom line is that the battle for credibility must be fought on
several fronts. One of them HAS to be the charity work. If this is disregarded
then the movement will fail. The second needs to be a joint effort with community
leaders or groups that want to help combat crime or even help clean up the
neighborhood on an aesthetic level. The third needs to be making sure that if the
movement is put in the spotlight ( such as media interviews, articles in the paper,
ect. ) that members do not accidentally or intentionally reinforce any negative
stereotypes. Not everyone will accept what we do and some people will always
treat the movement as a joke or a nuisance but there are those people who are
on the fence and that can be swayed. We simply have to go about it with in an
intelligent and respecful manner.

Anyways, sorry for the long post but I got an email about this and I wanted to
offer my thoughts. Good luck guys and gals and stay safe - many blessing to you.

For me, when I call myself a crimefighter it doesn't mean that I go out and bust some skulls, as you say. There are no doubts as to what my activities are: patrolling and charity events. However, I do see those two activities as "crimefighting."

If a charity event I participate in, such as Operation Treehouse, or the upcoming 5 On 5 gives hope to some kid, maybe they'll avoid delving into a petty life of crime. Maybe that one toy that was donated, that one toy which was delivered to his or her house is gonna be the one thing in that kid's life that'll make them say, "Holy crap. Some guys who I've never even heard of who call themselves superheroes did this!"

I hope in the future to organize an event for a local animal shelter or the ASPCA (whom I just sent an introductory email to), based on the same reasoning. If my actions results in the adoption of a dog which was severely abused in a puppy mill, then that's creating a better life for both the animal, and its new owner!

I may dress in all black, covered in body armor, carrying pepper spray or a baton, bear in mind that I also carry a first aid kit, a digital camera, cellphone, and occasionally a digital voice recorder. Without the intimidation factor, mace, or baton, I would like to believe that I am still a useful asset to law enforcement.

Guardian has brought up a valid point. As former LEO(Law Enforcement Officer) before joining the RLSH movement, I can say that most of the LEOs I have met DO NOT LIKE RLSHs!! So while you might meet some who can be trusted, always remember to be cautious and safe out there!

I'm not actually as concerned as DG seems to be about the RLSH "image". I don't care. We're not all the same, most people seem to get the idea. So long as we don't mislead the public by pretending we're some kind of hierarchical organization with leaders and soldiers and such, we're still seen as individuals. That's the strength of it; I don't care how much bad press is said about anyone, I'm still me, I'm still doing what I think is right. Honestly, if they wrote negatively or dismissively of me, I'd be fine with it. Anyone who has received my help knows the truth about me, and that's what matters more, and is known in my neighborhood.

I find myself much akin to Dragonhearts statements about humanitarian work being my priority, and very much so agree with him about where to draw the line. I'm not seeking to punnish or dominate anyone, and I'm definitely calling the cops when I think it's appropriate, assisting with information when I may, but I will not be idle when someone's safety or very life are threatened and I'm able to assist.

I'm also not stupid, and -- except where my personal moral code is in untenable conflict -- I am a law abiding citizen. As my signature line implies, I follow just law which is not offensive to me on a moral level. I value individual rights and liberties very highly and am not willing to harm others unnecessarily.

I strongly suggest searching your local laws for potential areas of conflict, and to see what rights you may have in defense of yourself, others or property. Bear in mind weapons, prowling, concealment (of person, not just arms) and find out what affects you. For US residents, I compiled a list in the "Awareness" board here for USA Law Links (see www.therlsh.net/causes-charity-awareness-f1/usa-law-and-state-legislature-links-t107.htm). Use it and be cautious.

As for law enforcement, they must be wary of us, especially if we are unknown. We come off seeming like dangerous vigilantes, potentially getting ourselves involved in situations we're not trained to handle and becoming victims, or possibly causing harm when the situation could have been peaceably resolved or wasn't even a problem. They worry we'll make inappropriate decisions, like the man who was merely a parent carrying his tantrumming child from the store, but was sent to the emergency room by a well-meaning citizen who saw the white guy carrying the mixed-race child under his arm, screaming and kicking "let me go", and mistook him for a kidnapper.

To try and make myself known to LEOs in my area, to help assure them of my interest in being lawful (as well as my sanity, I hope), I've enrolled in a local community outreach program put on by the local PD called a "Citizen's Police Academy". It doesn't train citizens as police, of course, but introduces us to the main functions and workings of the police force, and includes time with many officers. Not only will this garner me some contacts and hopefully friendly relationships with a degree of trust, I also intend to send a statement to the Chief, explaining my values, my intentions and my belief about civic responsibility. This way, I hope to encourage a good relationship with the locals, avoid some misunderstandings and assist as best I'm able.

Lastly, when dealing with press I would say be very clear and simple as Mr. Xtreme was. He stated his values, his intentions and then very plainly states that he is a law-abiding citizen, acting within the scope of the law. He was not condemning the law or its officers, was not aggressive or harsh with anyone, not threatening at all. He said his part perfectly and should be well applauded for it.

Note how in the first article, the decent one which gave both the side of the officers and the heroes with little/no opinion included by the reporter, all the response thus far has been very positive. People believe in the goodness of what we do when we reaffirm it through action and responsible interaction with credible media. Mr. Xtreme did us all a service when he spoke as he did, and the reporter went the next good step reporting it fairly. We are judged by what we do, but in media we are judged by how well we respond.

Think about your values and your morals. Be prepared to state them should you be contacted by media. Press packets are fine as well, but I will be portrayed as a memeber of a group -- I'm an individual. We should be prepared to answer to the law for any action we undertake, and support law enfrocement in their efforts, not subvert them.

I suppose, after considering whether or not it's appropriate, I could share this as well. Something I wrote in response to a message I received recently. It was a mother who found out about us from her son who'd seen some youtube videos posted in MySpace. The videos concerned her a little, but she decided to contact me based on my MySpace listing to ask some specific questions, get an idea of what "the super hero community is about". She's not aware I'm mentioning this, but since it's my own statement, I think it's safe to say I'm respecting her communication as confidential.

Quote:

What are RLSH's about? I couldn't say. I could say what *I'm* about, but I don't speak for anyone else. I think calling myself "part of the Real Life Superhero community" would be inappropriate: I'm one of many individuals who call themselves Real Life Superheroes, which has become something of a movement, at best. I communicate with others like me, but I am still me. I'm not responsible for their behaviors and they are not responsible for mine. We share base values, and some of us even coordinate some activities together, but there's certainly no formal group or structure. There are also those who team up together, pairings or more, but they are unto themselves in their own area, mostly -- I'm still just a single citizen looking to better my community through good works and just action. No, I don't "go looking for trouble," as you asked. I look for ways to help the police, help the less fortunate, and occasionally find someone in need that I can help. I'm not trying to interfere with criminals, but I try to inform police of suspicious activity, and I will certainly do what I feel is right if I see someone in danger. Regarding your other question about "duty", yes and no. I don't feel required to do this (as the word "duty" would imply), but I do feel motivated to do what I feel is morally correct, to live up to my personal values of integrity and honorable action. I've been one of those people who watches out for his neighbors for many years. I was wandering my areas of residence long before I elected to don the costume, just keeping an eye out for things that could be wrong, calling police when necessary. As for your last question about violence, I'm not really a volent person. As you'll see if you read my blogs, I'm really trying to focus being legally abiding and on humanitarian works. I'm going to take some defense courses (I used to practice Tae Kwon Do as well), just to prepare myself, but I know far more about the shelter I volunteer at and the legal responsibilities I undertake doing my patrols, than I do about practical defense. I just think it's time I did more for my community. Yeah, I'll wear my silly uniform, but that's not really the point, it's just for a little fun and a layer of anonymity from serious criminals (certainly not police). Plus, it helps raise awareness for causes like the blood drive I'm coordinating in Orlando in February. You know about the Red Cross and donating blood, but won't you think more about it if you see a crowd of costumed heroes outside waving to you with signs to save a life with a pint of your blood? I would. Again, though, I'm only myself. For other people's views and habits,

Whoops, I didn't paste the whole message I guess. Well, you get the idea.

Well what I did not like is pushing his rights to do what he does. I think it send a negative vibe. But I don't think we should apologize for what we do either. Many of us have skills we are using to help others. Guys like Black Knight and The Eye have experience in investigation organizaitions like Perverted Justice or Security Management. Guys like Agent Null and Knight Owl who have medical experience or Citizen Prime and The Black Ghost who have human management experience. Combine that with our passion to make a difference in the world as well as forging our own way in the world. We are creating our own ideals and icons based on the pop culture comic book characters. It is a sub culture that is based on self improvement as well as improving the world around us with the skills that we have.
I mean, how many of us have actually been actively looking for opportunities to help others whenever we can. How many of us have actually been making improvements in our own lives? Eating differently, working out, working on our personal relationships? We are motiviating ourselves to be better people.
The media, by nature, looks for what will make the ratings. So calling a sub culture perverts will get ratings. It's a easy thing because no one is going to call them up and ask them to stop being prejudice. They did it for many different sub cultures as they started off. And I am sure they did it for the Guardian Angels as well. But at the same time, the ideas of comics are slowly gaining ground in our society. I mean I just saw a Target commercial where Christina Aquilera was dressed up as Terrifica.
I don't know, I guess I would not worry so much. We are actively researching individuals for the RLSH site. We have a statement and we published what a RLSH means and our quest to make postive changes in our lives. The only other thing we can do I think is create a definition on Crime Fighting and what that entails. Also include that these ideas anyone can do and that anyone can be a Superhero, but it just requires a desire to change your world.

For me it is less about image and more about responsibility and accountability.

Citizen Smoke and Zetaman have pretty much said everything I really have to say on the issue. It's no surprise that cops aren't thrilled with folks actively seeking out crime and trying to stop it themselves. After all, it's their job, and I'm very ok simply being an extra set of eyes for them. Smoke makes a point that I've always held to be true, regarding the need to assert individuality. When we call ourselves a community, we create the illusion that our actions are representative of everyone else. It's inevitable that eventually someone will screw up, which is why it's important to do what we can to let people know that we're not that person.

Honestly, I think they are within their legal rights. Are they being responsible about it? That remains to be seen.

As long as citizen's arrest/detainment is legal, and they follow their state's guidelines, it's not vigilantism.

Honestly, they (the RLSHs in question) could have handled the interview a bit better.

Oh, and here are the latest comments. These seem more favorable.

i say give these guys a break. if the cities gave the cops more money
and if the cops did their jobs then we wouldn't need people like this
in the first place.
-jojo

I have always found stuff like this inspiring in movies and on
television. This is such a breath of fresh air to see that heroes like
that exist in real life. Thank God!
-Elizabeth

The police position on this is a little sad. I had a regular guy step
in when I was in Jersey and got approached by a would-be mugger. I tell
you the cops who eventually responded sounded just like this. They
lectured the guy about vigilantism and how he was asking for trouble.

I felt bad because this guy helped me out big time, just trying to be a
GOOD person, doing the RIGHT thing. Seemed to me like the cops were
just jealous, maybe felt their jobs were threatened. This comes off a
lot like that.

If these hero people are helping out someone in a violent situation,
they either can deal with it or they can't. If they can then they
should be applauded for their help. If not, I have to think they knew
to expect that possibility before they decided to help, but did it
anyway because it's right to do. Good for Mr. Xtreme and MidKnight. I
want one in my neighborhood.
- "Not Sure"



Can't say that these guys aren't fellow RLSHs, but the kind words are welcome in my book.

Yeah... I don't know. Fighting for my rights to bear non lethals is a fight I don't want to take up. At least not infront of the media.

Is that what they were hassled for?

I don't think so. I didn't get that impression from the article at all. My impression was simply that they aren't arguing anything, but that they are doing as they are legally allowed and intend good. I'm not sure how what they said could come off negatively, to be honest. They seemed reasonable and appropriate in their response.

As for the TV thing, that's useless to me. I mean, yay for Geraldo being cool about it, but even with the snotty "judge" chiming in like that, it doesn't seem useful or important to concern ourselves with a morning show that doesn't even have the merit to talk to their subjects. I think people recognize that and would easily give heroes the benefit of the doubt. The three comments of six Hardwire pasted show how people took it when both views are shown objectively. All six of the comments I saw were positive toward the RLS community at large, or at least the pair featured.

We're here to do good. A lot of people see that. We just need to convince the other 30% of that too.

Nah you're right. I made a mistake. Ooops...
Either way, I still would not worry about it so much.

I agree. Those guys can handle themselves. I'm just saying that we should probably do our best to gain some decent relationships with local law enforcement. They may never truly like us, but it's better than being branded as vigilantes and menaces.

A really good articles about the Xtreme Justice League

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jan/17/1n17heroes002224-dynamic-do-gooders-contribute-lor/?zIndex=38829