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 This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.

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Midnite Detective



Category:
  • Non-RLSH


PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:14 pm

Probably because your best chance to stop him is with a weapon. He was kicked in the head several times. They weren't solid kicks by any means but you cannot count on a KO with a kick to his face. Once you've kicked him enough to get his attention you are now the focus of his knife attack. Weapons are a hell of a lot more useful in that scenario than not having one.
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Sleepless



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:29 pm

He's distracted, the angle is correct, you could kill him with a hard enough kick from where he is.

And even if it didn't disable him, I'd rather become the target and draw attention away from the woman he's slowly killing. At least a standing and uninjured person would have a chance of defending themselves.

You can't always have a weapon everywhere at all times, I'm sure if one of the people in the video had a gun they'd have used it.

If you have a gun on you at the time then she's very lucky, but if you don't and waste time looking for a weapon you are lowering her chance of survival.
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Midnite Detective



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:38 am

He's distracted, the angle is correct, you could kill him with a hard enough kick from where he is.
Go for it. I don't think I could kill him with a solid kick to his head. it would hopefully distract him from the victim though.

And even if it didn't disable him, I'd rather become the target and draw attention away from the woman he's slowly killing. At least a standing and uninjured person would have a chance of defending themselves.
Everyone on this board who has commented would do the same, to draw focus away from the woman.

You can't always have a weapon everywhere at all times, I'm sure if one of the people in the video had a gun they'd have used it.
Probably. They would have hopefully used it properly and not hit anyone else at the scene.

If you have a gun on you at the time then she's very lucky, but if you don't and waste time looking for a weapon you are lowering her chance of survival.
No one has suggested looking for a weapon or wasting time doing so. So far it's been "if I had had a firearm." The guys who are responding on here are too well trained or down to earth to run around wildly lookhnig for a broken tree branch half a block away. They would have acted.

Using what we have: my own suggestion of using a shirt or jacket takes almost zero time to get off and employ. Hell even whipping out a pocket knife and planting a few stabs in his neck is a more sure thing.

But if you feel you can disable him with one good kick to the head/face go for it. I don't know your capabilities in that area.
The guys in the crowd that were there sure weren't up to that standard when they were repeatedly kicking at him.

Weapons, or tools if you prefer, are the best chance to stop the maniac with minimal injury to yourself and others once his focus has been turned away from the vicitm.
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Equal




PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:50 am

One good kick could disable him, but it would be a lethal kick. A soccer player could have pulled that off. But we have to be realistic. I know my skills and limitations, if I kicked him his face, he would barely have noticed it. My fist thought is to look for something to use against his face, the second is disarming him. Disarming is a personal risk, so I prefere the first option.
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Teiden



Category:
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  • Hero Support


PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:52 am

Being a former martial arts student and soccer player, my first thought on watching the attempts to get him off of her was 'That was a really weak kick.'

I don't know if I COULD bring myself to do that kind of harm in that kind of a situation, but I like to think that when it comes down to life or death of me or someone else, that I could end the life of a person committing murder to save an innocent victim.

As far as instantly killing him via a kick: Really, it all depends on exactly where you aim a kick to a persons head and with what footwear. I mean, with steel toed boots, yeah. A shot to the temple, or neck could do it. But either way, a good solid kick to a distracted person has a good chance of at least knocking them silly. For example, aim for the tip of the jaw or right below the ear aka "The button" and you have a much higher chance of at worst stunning them enough to get the weapon away and neutralize the threat.

Note, that I don't recommend violence like that unless it's absolutely necessary, such as if a situation as happened in the video occurred.
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:59 am

From the photos, it looked like the guy was maybe doped up on something very strong, but I only saw pics not video. I don't know if even a great (non-lethal) kick would've stopped him. As for the bystanders being ineffectual, fear can rob you of strength, and cowardice doesn't play into their reactions. It's survival instinct, and I will not berate them for that. Not everyone can overcome that kind of primal fear.
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Equal




PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:15 am

It's a emotional conflict occuring. The scene triggers more sympathy than agression in my case. Not easy to release voilence when your whole body just want to help somebody. Would have been a lot easier if there was somebody bleeding on the street (sympathy) or somebody attacking myself or a child (aggression).
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:09 am

Captain Illumination wrote:
Nemesis wrote:
Don't shoot into the air...ask anyone who's been hit by a falling bullet on the 4th...they do not reach escape velocity, and people get hurt. If you're prepared to fire your weapon, fire it at your target. Otherwise, don't.


This isn't entirely true, the bullet can only fall at it's terminal velocity, that being said 300 mph is still decently fast, could it kill someone? yes but chances are a 1,000 times less likely then lighting striking them. You just have to make sure you aim straight up, never fire a gun at less then a 75 degree angle or the bullet can come back down still under it's own power and easily kill the poor guy unlucky enough to get in it's way.


I mean, that's all well and good, but it happens often enough for me to be able to post a bunch of news stories on the matter...it happens pretty much every fourth around here, and I'm sure those shooters also think it's super unlikely they'll hit someone. Doesn't change the fact that you're possibly killing an innocent, and blatantly disregarding good gun safety practice to maybe scare a piece of crap into stopping stabbing his wife to death. Take the shot, or don't bother to use the gun. In between puts others at risk.
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Jack Shadow



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:23 am

I have to agree with Nemesis here. Do not pack unless you are prepared to kill someone. Guns are not for scaring people off (although they can have that effect), they are for defending your life or the life of another with deadly force. Period.
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:24 am

Any gun safety trainer will tell you to never fire your gun without a clear target and knowing what lies beyond it. It is one of the four cardinal rules of firearm safety, and one of the first things you learn in any firearms class. Firing into the air may have a low likelihood of killing, but it is possible and avoidable. You don't want a manslaughter rap for trying to warn some killer to stop.
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E0N



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:25 am

EDIT -- what Gauge said about targets Smile

As for the scenario thing -- without a gun, really whatever you decide to do, whether it's to pick up something to bash the guy with or kick him with your steel toed boots or pull out your pocket knife...

...and again this is easy for me to say here posting from my office...

the thing to do is to seriously commit to the action and give it everything you have. The guys in this video who were trying to help all did things that might have helped a lot, but they didn't do them boldly. In the end they did actually help her some, even so.

You don't have to be a martial arts expert or whatever, just whatever it is you think of to do in the moment, really do it.

_________________
- E0N
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:50 am

Very much this. Commitment to take action is vital. The kickers in the video were trying to help and stay away at the same time. Very ineffectual.
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Ohm



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:42 am

Thanks for posting.
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Guest



PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:26 am

What EON and Gauge said. What's the term...violence of action? Or some such thing. You have to fully commit to the aggression.
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:50 am

How many people here have been the victim of a knife attack, had a gun pointed at them, or have been otherwise accosted? What were the circumstances and how did you react?
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Guest



PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:13 pm

Had a gun pointed at me. There was a cop on the other end. Simple misunderstanding, followed instructions, went home fine. Kind of a different situation than you mean.
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Gauge



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:29 pm

A bit, but you kept your head, both figuratively and literally.
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E0N



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:38 pm

Well, I've had a few personal experiences. They weren't RLSH things.

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- E0N
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Midnite Detective



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:51 pm

I’ve had a knife pulled on me, broken up a knife fight between two former friends, and have been stabbed pretty good twice by accident (neither time during the two actual knife attacks, once by myself even, go figure.) Things seem to slow down. When the knife was pulled on me I froze for a second, I think it was a short second, it's difficult to judge time in that kind of stress, before kicking the guy as hard as I could. It worked out. Dumb luck and pure brute force. If that guy had been any kind of real knifer he would have cut my leg apart. In other words, I got lucky because this was before I had any knowledge or training in how a real knife fight goes down and the knifer was as equally awkward.

I was shot at in 1994 in St. Louis when we found a guy breaking into a neighbor's car. He opened up and we scattered. I caught a piece of a ricochet in my right calf. Kept my head but the adrenaline was pumping, especially when the thief pulled up and opened fire. I scattered and ran like crazy with the guys who were with me and didn't know my leg was bleeding until a was safe. Still have a nice scar from that one.

There's been other times where I've been out and about and a nasty fight broke out. I've been caught off guard and frozen just like the people in the vid. I sympathize with them. But I was still able to act after the initial shock.

None of these were on any sort of patrol or neighborhood watch either. Just crazy life randomness.

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Midnite Detective



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PostSubject: Re: This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.   Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:00 pm

The first stab wound I got was when an idiot friend flipped an icepick at me when I asked for it. I caught it in my left forearm and it was about two inches in. No pain, only a dot of blood. If I hadn't gotten my arm up it would have been in my face. Of course when I pulled it out skin tension pulled the skin up with the shaft until it slid out. We had a talk after that.

The moron maneuver where I fell onto a carving knife with my left knee was more serious. Drove it into my knee about an inch and a half. Lots of blood, soaked half of a bath towel before we got it stopped with pressure and super glue. Being poor and uninsured at the time we treated it at home. No infection, lucky.
Once again skin tension is interesting. Gashes and long stabs will pop right open when the skin tension is broke.

As with the ricochet it didn't' hurt until after the adrenaline went away. Then it hurt like a bitch.

Unless it's an intant or near-instant fatal wound, you will have time to act when wounded, but it's a short time, before shock and blood loss set in.

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This is a knife attack. NSFW and bloody.

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