I'm rather new, so I apologize if this is the wrong area. I don't mean to spam or anything considered unacceptable. However, I was interested in the success rate of those of you that patrol. I am in this, quite seriously. Many of you think this is just a fun thing to cosplay around in, or a fun way to get attention. Others that are actually committed, well, let's be honest...Many of you that actively and truly patrol probably live in suburbs or far from actual crime or serious situations.

Vigilantism is illegal, to truly be doing your jobs, many of you would have to be bounty hunters. Or be criminals yourselves, as the bloods and crypts and other gangs are not intimidated by someone saying "Stop or I'll call the cops.", they will shoot you and laugh. If you're patrolling in an area like that, in the real world you'd need a gun and be willing...if you needed to, to shoot someone. And that's not stopping crime, it's adding to it. And I'm not trying to break whatever illusion (or delusions) that some of you want to belong in, but I'd like to know the facts.

Have any of you actually helped? Saved a life? Done community work, charities, fun raisers, talked to someone in a serious non-costumed conversation?


How committed are you? How real is this?

with my monthly handouts and our recent meet up- 200 people kept alive for at least one day.

I patrol and observe and record in the downtown eastside of vancouver, read Tea's blog and the postings on here to learn some more.
those who were up for the meet up can tell you it is the most wildly dangerous area with the drugs and crime going on they've seen.

if hell had a street address it would be down there on Hastings street.

Most of the rlsh who patrol looking for crimes in progress do so specifically because they live in high crime areas and have seen firsthand the way violence affects innocent citizens and they truly want to make a difference.

It is impossible to accurately measure how much crime is stopped, because the mere presence of another human being in the area can be enough to deter a crime that otherwise would have been committed. Since we cannot be sure that a crime was imminent, we do not know if our presence stopped it. However, if you only calculate for the instances where an rlsh intervened in a crime in progress, the math is fairly straightforward.

For this purpose, I would divide the number of incidents into the number of times that the victim (count groups as one victim) was able to walk away from the crime without serious injury or further injury from the time you arrive. That will give you your percentage.

Being so new to this, I would suggest you refrain from making assumptions that you have no real basis for. I realize you are not trying to offend anyone, but some could mistake what you have said. Rather, I hope you will seek more information and see how valuable the people here can be to their communities.

My "success rate", as calculated by my simplistic formula, rounds up to 70%. This seems low, but you must understand that many encounters involve multiple assailants or multiple victims. I patrol in a high crime area, although not by NY standards, and go out quite frequently.

83.6%... Generally we don't cross lines. Find me off-site for details on that.

by the way. have you?

Thanatos- Heh!

Blue- *****edited. The original poster has deleted his account, and this was a list of examples of things I'd done. It was up here to make a point, but I've taken it down now so as not to appear boastful*****

To talk to me, you would have no idea whether I'm full of crap or the frickin' Punisher. No amount of words typed here will ever convince you that someone is good, or real, or honest. You'd have to meet everyone and watch them at work to truly know.... and that won't happen.

People in this community break their backs trying to filter the fakers away. I would advise against worrying about what everyone else is doing. Be what you want to be, and be as active as you think a RLSH should be.

Pointing fingers in judgement will cause only one thing; division.

In response to the "what have you done?", that a few have asked back, I've switched my major to psychology a year or so back. So I plan to help on a daily basis when I'm older. On top of that, I help out in mentoring, charities, fund raisers and such when I can. So to answer the implied question: Yes, I practice what I preach. Nice try, though.

I was a graphic design major before, and I wanted to influence the world through my writing, and I still do that on the side. Changing minds is a lot more powerful than bashing heads. Luke Cage, Spawn, Superman, Batman and even Spider-Man have shown such a concept numerous times. Though, NYPD, Firefighters, Paramedics, Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, and people in the real world have proven it as well.

I'm not going to go into my personal life...But I live in Jersey and used to live in other places with some of the highest crime in the US of A (some of them still have the highest crime rates). So the reason I ask the question is not to insult the people who are doing something.

Those who are doing something are one of the few people on the planet who care enough to help and make a difference.


However, it raises questions, not doubts.

-Why not have become a cop?
-Why not be a firefighter?
-Why not join the military?
-Why not become a doctor or psychologist?
-Why not become an official detective?


Maybe some of you misunderstand, it's not about patronizing the people who are, or anyone for that matter. It's an honest and direct question. I do however, wonder about the defensive tone that some of you are taking.

unfortunately.... while rendering a needed public service. the offices mentioned don't always get thru to the root of the problem. it's the whole ideology/iconography thing. some of us have issues we wish to bring to light and so, a flamboyant costumed persona is a great way to garner support. others wish to make up for past indiscretions, perhaps not qualifying for such a position. others wish to maintain their personal anonymity. there's probably a couple I missed. and these are only possibilities, "maybes".

*extensive editing to refrain from my trademark tom-foolery*

it's good to question, I hope you find answers that satisfy your curiosity.

as to my success.... nobody's hunting in my side yard anymore since my patrols started. I don't know the percentage on that tho. there has been a considerable decrease in the amount of beverage containers and other such refuse along the water and road ways as well.

and for me and public service; I dig the good these folks do, they stand for something that can't be bought out. if one of my stalwart allies sells out...... it's gonna be obvious, think about it. I grew up around "bad" cops, walk into a station house and find the good ones for me as quick as you can point out a poser here.... come on, I wanna see. teach me how?

once again, this is just me.

a cop? done that in Rhodesia. left it because the govt there was rascist. police can be a tool of the govt.

a firefighter? never got around to it.

the military? served in the US Army Specdial Forces. "De Oppreso Libre" south east asian war games-second place.

a doctor? was in the army instead of medical school

offical detective? no time as I work in real life as a licensed professional in the death industry helping people to cope with the loss of loved ones and friends on a daily basis.

nice to hear you do what you can. that is really all we do. just some of us have differnt methods.

And I respect that.

BlueXusion,

Please don't take offense to what I'm about to say, but by trying to sound like a smart guy who knows all about us, you instead sounded like a fool who made a random guess and instead your conclusion was just another possibly common misconception about us. Your questions were entirely legit and fair. But for future reference, when you know you're not sure about something to the point where you need to post a question about it, I would suggest avoiding throwing so many assumptions in there at the same time, that might be false.

I think Gauge answered your first question about patrolling most accurately. Or at least very similar to how I might have answered it myself.

As for your other question of why not become those jobs instead?

For one, there's nothing to say that none of us can't - or don't - or haven't already - do or done any of those jobs. I used to be in the military. But what I do is not a job; I don't do it for money, and I don't do it for x amount of hours a day, x days of week, etc., it's who I am and the way I live my life.

In fact, having jobs like those can help contribute to our skill in this lifestyle, and I do recommend having or at least experiencing having jobs like those. And the experience we have in this lifestyle can help us in our jobs, too. It takes one hand to wash the other.

I'm sorry if I came across in that way. And I see how you guys could have taken it the wrong way. I only meant to ask questions, I am very direct with things I say, I didn't mean to sound like an arrogant fool.

I'm not used to being the new guy. So I always take things from where I left off everywhere else. Because I leave it to people to ask questions. I was not trying to assume, I was trying to point out possibilities and I meant to only ask which possibility is the right one.

I do see how the way I went about it was wrong. And it now makes sense to me why White Skull and others didn't like me. So, I'm sorry for being a prick. I wasn't trying to be.

I am actually inspired by the people who go out of their way to do stuff. And you Tothian, I've read your posts...You more than anyone serve as an inspiration.


My way of being a RLSH, was to publish my work and inspire other people through my art and writing. And inspire people to help the world. I came to this board because I was hoping that many of you ARE successful and I could use it as inspiration for my artwork and stories. You see, some of you are heroes...like really heroes...And you inspire me to be a hero, to then inspire others. It's a circle.

I wasn't trying to be cocky or anything. I just wanted..to make it work. But it's cool. I guess I will catch you later.

It's easy to ask why those who choose to be rlsh don't become doctors, police officers, prosecutors or the like. The answer to that question is equally simple and also answers another question: why don't police officers, doctors or prosecutors strive to become rlsh? Different people have different callings. Our experiences mold us into who we are and determine how we respond to stimuli.

Being an rlsh is a way to make a difference on YOUR schedule, not someone else's. Also, it is a PROACTIVE approach, as opposed to reactive. A doctor will treat people who are already victims of crime. Prosecutors will pursue convictions against those who have already offended, and police respond to crimes as they are reported -- many police departments cannot afford to have foot patrols -- although they do also intervene if they see trouble brewing, so are similar to rlsh in that respect.

Police self-defense training is not sufficient for doing the job of rlsh. Some police will further their training on their own, but look at all the fat officers out there, and tell me how many you think are doing so. Police have many powers we do not, but we can do much that they cannot do to solve or deter crime.

There is more than enough room for everyone who wants to do good, and no end to the ways good deeds can be accomplished. One should never be questioned as to method (unless it is criminal) if the goal is to have a positive effect on the world.

One of the few times I agree with Tothian.
It's better to ask than to assume.

Gauge,

Yet again your post also represents a way of thinking that is very similar to my own. Especially with the why Police Officers, Doctors, etc., don't become "RLSH's"? However, the idea is that there might just be some who are, but we might not (yet?) know about it. But I do like how you were able to apply the inverting your way of thinking to ask the opposite question that most people would likely ask about us.

The only thing I kind of disagreed with you about there was saying we're proactive rather than reactive. Because sometimes police officers, doctors, and such, can take a proactive approach to things, too. Sometimes that is done through media, or perhaps due to their approach that they take in society. As for myself, to be honest I would consider myself mostly reactive rather than proactive. However there have been some tactics I've used at times to be more proactive.

I only mean that those jobs are reactive in general. Certainly there are proactive aspects such as education, rehab programs, etc. I did not mean to suggest they are just standing around waiting for the shit to hit the fan. I can only speak for myself, but I feel patrolling rlsh are more proactive than these other valuable public services.

But to get back to part of his original post about the "success rate," it does raise some fair questions. Is there any way to independently verify how effective RLSH efforts are? Either individually or collectively? I know there’s definitely good being done. However, how much and how well?

I mean, there’s a lot of RLSH out there, or at least people that identify as RLSH, and I got to admit, not all of them are as good as they think they are. Heck, there’s even some “RLSH” that have done damage. It would be good to be able to measure how much good is being done, if only to have another tool in weeding out the not-so-good guys.

How are RLSH ways better than more “traditional” routes? Or are they? I’d bet there’s some RLSH that would do more good in a more “traditional” route, while others use the RLSH way for an even better advantage. I think beyond just the “why not be a cop” question, there’s still some deeper questions to ask. Maybe by examining how much good we are really doing or how effective our efforts are, we can then better serve our respective communities? It can’t hurt, right?


Oh, and Thanatos...Rhodesia? Wow, your experience goes WAY back! For everyone else, Rhodesia doesn’t even exist anymore; it’s Zimbabwe now.