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 Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?

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PostSubject: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:31 am

So, I was trained in MCMAP, which is a close-quarters hand-to-hand system developed by the Marine Corps. It teaches basic techniques to disarm and disable your opponent using your entire body as well as just about any improvised weapon that happens to be lying around.
I completed the green stripe training, which took several months and, as the instructors assured me, was "just enough to get my ass handed to me in a barfight."

What types of martial arts/fighting styles do you all practice out there? Armed? Unarmed? Mixed Martial Arts? Boxing? Let's hear what our brawlers have to say!
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The Lord Protector
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:27 am

a little bit of everything. knock downs mainly. the one thing that truly matters in a fight in the real world is who hits the ground hardest. the floor is the weapon that's always there.
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Vague
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:57 am

Krav maga and tae kwon do in my opinion are best to learn because they are useful in both self defence AND offensive situations, even though i only use self defence.
also both are martial arts styles that can be learnt and actualley be used and not watered down to be used in competitions.
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The Lord Protector
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:50 am

not entirely sure i agree. at least where i live, if you say the scentence "i'm a black belt in tae kwon do" it means you have an after school special for an education, and will get stabbed trying to fight in the real world. there are no legitimate dojos in my area only storefront martial arts. and that's just enough to wind up dead.
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Augury
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:57 pm

Why use the mere power of hands when there is so much more to mankind?

External arts are good as well, but I suggest internal arts as well. Be a powerful spirit and a powerful arm.
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:37 pm

Thank you for that Zen Koan-like response.

In layman's terms, whaaaat?
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Augury
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:37 pm

Tai Chi, Ba Gua, Xing yi, to name a few
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mrravenblade
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:55 pm

The Lord Protector wrote:
not entirely sure i agree. at least where i live, if you say the scentence "i'm a black belt in tae kwon do" it means you have an after school special for an education, and will get stabbed trying to fight in the real world. there are no legitimate dojos in my area only storefront martial arts. and that's just enough to wind up dead.


Not true.

I'm studying TKD, Weapons Training, and Hap Ki Do as part of a MMA training regiment from a guy that trained with major martial arts and action celebs, and I have to say it is *very* effective in getting you to be faster and more flexible; Not to mention the hand grabs, locks, holds, anti-weapons training and more make it worth a lot more than you seem to think.

Yes, if you only train for the limited scope of the tournaments/sports aspect, its limiting. But if you take it as part of a education, it can be very valuable as long as you take it seriously and treat your sparring as a chance to learn.

To all the people focused on blunt force: Its not just about power, you need to have control as well. Also, not everybody has Krav Maga in the area; I dont, and that is why I went into what I had available with the mma/tkd/hapkido/weapons training to continue my education.

One thing to keep in mind is that a front kick, back step kick, side kick, etc is still whatever, even if it has another name in your school of martial arts. In pretty much any of them you take seriously, you are going to learn something useful or be able to leverage what you know if you move on to something else. I did this myself when moving into TKD after not doing martial arts seriously enough to take a class for almost 10 years.
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:14 pm

Taekwon Do incorporates very fancy techniques, flashy high kicks, which I wouldn't recommend using on the streets. While it helps for speed, power, and flexibility, the techniques are made mainly for sport. And a lot of people who use TKD are too stiff and rigid in fights, which is a fatal flaw. You have to be loose and flow like water.

Aikido, Muay Thai, Stickfighting. They are the main styles that work for me. And yes I've been trained in MCMAP too, but that has various styles put in to one. I also know a little bit of Navy Seal/Delta Force hand to hand combat.
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mrravenblade
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:21 am

Tothian wrote:
Taekwon Do incorporates very fancy techniques, flashy high kicks, which I wouldn't recommend using on the streets. While it helps for speed, power, and flexibility, the techniques are made mainly for sport. And a lot of people who use TKD are too stiff and rigid in fights, which is a fatal flaw. You have to be loose and flow like water.

Aikido, Muay Thai, Stickfighting. They are the main styles that work for me. And yes I've been trained in MCMAP too, but that has various styles put in to one. I also know a little bit of Navy Seal/Delta Force hand to hand combat.


I actually do tkd for the added speed and flexibility; Its good for you even if you never use the TKD forms or competition "stuff". I'm a big guy; Big guys tend to be powerful but slow.. so really the TKD items is about filling in gaps in training. Think of a big guy who is also fast and very flexible; A tank that can dodge, to give you a mental image. The flashy stuff - as I have already said - has its place in other areas but may not be useful given a specific tactical situation, and I think that is something that has been said so I'm not sure why you keep repeating this stuff.

The funny thing is that Hap ki do is all about flowing like water; Its clear you do not know what you are talking about. See http://taekwondobible.com/analysis/hapkido/philosophy.html for more info.

And for your information, Hap Ki Do is the Korean version of Ai ki do - go ahead and look it up - they basically took it and modified it for their own use. The primary difference is that Hap ki do (The tkd version you seem to dislike) is actually much more highly developed than Aikido in terms of kicking and use of feet as weapons; see http://www.taekwondobible.com/analysis/hapkido/differ.html for more information.

So please, before you start to disparage a fighting system you do not have significant experience in, step back and please at least do some basic research. It really does not do anybody any good if you go around talking about a fighting system as if you know all about it, when its clear based on the content of your own posts you do not know what you are talking about, since you can really mislead people that way and despite your claims it really can do people good if they are willing to invest in it.

Just because its not your personal choice, does not mean that it is the wrong one.
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:33 pm

Mr. Ravenblade,

From what I mentioned about Taekwon Do, it's based on a pattern I've noticed from people I've sparred or fought who do Taekwon Do (I hate sparring, btw). And also everything I've heard about it from others who have done it. One example being that you wouldn't kick somebody in the face in a real fight (unless you were standing up and they were laying down, but that's overkill). How you train is likely how you will fight in a real fight, because in a real fight you'll mostly every time get something called an "Adreniline Dump" where you'll usually forget everything you knew about fighting, and have to rely on muscle memory.

I used to do Gojo-Ryu Karate. It had it's flaws, like for example when they practice punches, they nearly lock their arms out and hold their arms out when they punch, unlike in boxing which teaches you to be quick and flowing.

I won't deny what you're saying about Hapkido is right. Aikido is more about flowing techniques, blending with the attack and re-directing it into continuous circular motions. My Aikido Sensei told me he once took Hapkido for a little bit. From what he told me about it, it involves more using body mechanics and sinking your body weight instead of relying on strength. And how it does involve kicks.
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winter knight
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:24 pm

I hold a back belt in shotokan karate, tae kwon do and trained in boxing for nine months and jujitsu for 5. I have been in this conversation a few time before on the form and I have said it once and I will say it again, I believe when it comes to a physical confrontation training in any self-defense or defense tactics does help and at times might give you an edge over your attacker or attackers. But at the end of the day, weather you jkd, tkd, baseball bat, six on one, or super eagle claw, the people that usually wins the fight is the one who is the most violent or takes it to that extreme.
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Midnight_Hawk
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:46 am

I had a black belt in taekwondo...
Downside is I was 9 years old.
They couldn't give me my next belt until I was 13.
Sooooo.. being the impatient little attention deficit disorder child I was...
I decided to play little league baseball instead.
Which I was ironically.. no good at.
go figure Neutral
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knight owl
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:03 am

if you want to learn TKD as an effective style, learn it the traditional way. from a old korean guy, not in a mcdojo.

without throwing stones, its fair to say a lot of chain schools are more sport/belt oriented. DG may agree or not, depending on his experience, and it really depends on what you want to use it for. some are great ways to stay fit, study an ART for discipline, and build a good work ethic, team work, yadda yadda.

the other reality based stuff is meant for you to survive. period. it involves beating the shit out of somebody cause they want to kill/rape/maim you. and then you escape to live another day. that is the bottom line for self-defense.
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JohnnyVegas
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:56 pm

winter knight wrote:
the people that usually wins the fight is the one who is the most violent or takes it to that extreme.


Be like a badger! They're relentless lil assholes, to say the least.

I wholly agree with your assessment. The dude that's ready and willing to kill without the fear of being killed or hurt is the one that wins. He who hestitates, masturb... wait, that doesn't apply to this. But you see where I'm going. If you're afraid of...whatever!, you're already at a disadvantage. Afraid of jail, afraid of pain, afraid of the long-term ramifications of your actions, afraid of embarrassment, etc.

Personally, I prefer unarmed styles. I don't trust the availability of weapons. And if I never hear "mixed martial arts" again, it'll be too soon! Oye.

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Sentinel
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:51 pm

Ninjutsu has worked best for me. I've also studied a bit of Shorin Ryu and Hapkido. I learned a long time ago that all of the techniques for punching, kicking, stances etc would not be really the most effective for me. I believe in ending the fight quickly, using what ever means necessary. Example, in my travels I was put into a choke hold from a VERY large guy, which there would have really been no way for me to get out of it easily, even if I had hip thrown him, his grip was powerful. I simple removed a spike shuriken from my drop leg and jabbed it into his leg. Needless to say, he let go, and I took him down then. I give respect and credence to all forms of martial arts, however I use what works best for me.
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Atavistik
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:01 pm

Trained against many different styles...... adapt as I go along. Emphasis on staffs and sword along with some 3-section staff, nunchaku, knives, and the like.

Skill earned over time. I prefer not to fight if it can be avoided and will attempt to talk most times even after being hit.

Knowing when not to fight is the test of a warrior...... but I'm more like a monk.
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Sentinel
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:05 pm

True Atavistik, I always make it a point to avoid fighting if I can. However, I am well equipped to do so, if need be. I utilize alot of "sneaky" weapons. ball bearings, shuriken, sand/pepper/ash bombs, (to throw into eyes) my trusty slingshot, caltrops, even blinding someone with my LED flashlight and a kick to the knee. I use anything and everything I can to end the fight. SAP gloves give me an extra sense of protection as well.
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JohnnyVegas
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:27 am

You have to be careful with what you carry because of the various laws regarding concealed weapons. Noble intentions or not, la policia will arrest you. Having knowledge of swords is all well and good but you can't walk around with a claymore! Curse modern society. I know in Michigan, for example, pepper sprays are illegal altogether. There's a type of tear gas, however, that is legal but with restrictions on amount and strength.

In the end, all you can rely upon is your fists. Those are legal in all 50 states.

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Atavistik
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PostSubject: Re: Defensive/ Offensive martial arts?   Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:37 am

Knowledge of something does not say you use it. I out of all people here, am probably the only person that could get away with carrying a sword on patrol. I live in a rural area. It's not a habit I'm in, but I have on occasion carried a sword down my road to a spot where I train. I carry a telescoping baton on patrol..... along with my bokken so I can spar with 8 on uneventful treks.




*really need to post pics... need new camera. We have beautiful places to train.*


Last edited by Atavistik on Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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