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 Question regarding grapple vs. strike

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PostSubject: Question regarding grapple vs. strike   Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:00 pm

Just wondering is anyone can give me even a brief list of pros and cons regarding grappling martial arts (brazilian jiu jitsu or judo) vs martial arts that focus on strikes. How do they compare/contrast to each other in philosophy, technique, physical attributes important in each, and effectiveness?
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PostSubject: Re: Question regarding grapple vs. strike   Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:51 pm

Strikes are more scrutinized by courts, and do a bit more damage to the subject (all other things held equal).
Grapples close distance, but look more defensive on video. Personally, I use MMA, a blend of both. (with a healthy dose of "stop attacking me, I am not a threat to your safety" for the possible jury)

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PostSubject: Re: Question regarding grapple vs. strike   Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:22 am

Striking

The Pros
(Big Factor) The Quick Knockout Factor: One quick effective strike can take your opponent out end of story, after all time is of the essence.

(Big Factor) The Multiple Fighters Scenario: Striking gives you mobility, which gives you the ability to fight more than one person at a time.

The Damage Factor: Using strikes gives you the ability to methodically hurt your opponent while also getting in their head and fucking with them mentally this is especially useful if you’re fighting a superior opponent.

The Cons
(Keep in Mind) The Quick Knockout Factor: This goes both ways, a bullshit hit to your jaw can knock you out so you are playing with fire every time you go toe to toe with someone.

The Superior Opponent Scenario: Let’s keep it real there are always bigger fish in the sea (especially in striking), so if you should cross a bigger fish (in striking) then maybe you need to switch it up because most people don’t know effective grappling and remember your common thug prides himself on the fact that he has “hands” lol.

Grappling

The Pros
The One Up Factor: Most people don’t know how to grapple effectively so you now have one up on most if not all of your opponents, remember thugs are good at throwing hands but not grappling on the ground.

(Big Factor) The “Tap, Snap or Nap” Factor: Lets face it you can’t knockout every opponent even if you are the superior striker, some people requires a more delicate approach. Grappling gives you that delicate approach because you can “Tap, Snap or Nap” an opponent, though tapping doesn’t necessarily apply to fighting in the streets you can definitely dismantle your opponent with the snap and nap factors lol.

The Cons
The One Person, One Move Fatcor: The flaw with grappling is you can only realistically fight one person at a time. In RLSH life, the scenario of multiple opponents is very real so to limit oneself to one fighter to be frank is stupid.

The Time Factor: Sometimes good grappling takes time. What I mean is to pull off certain moves effectively on a squirmy opponent might take longer than you want it to. All I’m saying is you might pull that move you want off but it might take a while, time is of the essence so chop chop.

Personally, in a RLSH scenario striking is more effective but in a regular one on one fight I would do grappling any day of the week lol, this is just my opinion but I do feel a realistic mixture of grappling and striking is the healthiest way to go.

If I think of any more Pros and Cons I’ll add them on.
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PostSubject: Re: Question regarding grapple vs. strike   Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:36 am

My background is in a style of Japanese Jujutsu that incorporates both grappling and strikes. I would say to be an all-around decent fighter you have to have an understanding of both. If you don't know how to take or dodge a hit, a striker is going to kick your ass. If you don't know how to roll out of an arm-lock, you're going to find your face in the pavement.

Also, in good Jujutsu schools, they do teach you how to take on multiple opponents quite effectively. My training has gotten me out of a number of jams over the years.

Hard to compare since I think both are vital for a warrior, but I would say that my understanding of an opponent's balance because of my grappling training has come in handy more than my ability to crack someone's ribs with a well placed punch. The latter opponent may still be standing and could still possibly take you out, the former is usually pinned down in a painful lock ready to be handcuffed, tied up, or neutralized however you like.
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PostSubject: Re: Question regarding grapple vs. strike   Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:06 am

I am of the belief that one should train in BOTH because fights by their very nature are unpredictable. I've been in several fights while doing security work over the years and no two have ever been the same.

Grappling is much better for restraining a person if you do not want to harm them (which was a necessity in the psyche ward at the hospital I worked at) and it can save your life if for some reason you are taken off your feet.

The ground fighting skills you learn in arts like Judo and Jujutsu will give you a great advantage when you find yourself taken down due to terrain, missed steps, or actions of your opponent (leg sweeps etc) On one occasion I was forced to ground fight due to a recent knee injury that caused my knee to lock up which in turn caused me to fall. It was the grappling skills I learned that allowed me to regain control of the fight and keep from being injured.

Striking arts are your power tools in a fight. Even on the ground a strong punch can do a lot of damage. Further more the counter techniques (wrist locks, blocks, etc) taught in the strinking arts help you to shield yourself from harm.

I am a firm believer in the KISS principle though - Keep It Sweet & Simple. Even when my skill level was higher than it is now, I chose NOT to use the fancier kicks and such outside of sparring in class simply because it was not necessary. A well placed punch or a simple front snap kick work well enough for ost encounters. On one occasion I used a sidekick to take out a knee, but every other time I have fought I had no need for fancy footwork.

Also remember that ANY opponent can surprise you. The one fight I tell everyone who asks about involved a 90 pound woman in the psychiatric ward who decided to throw down on six officers and a male nurse. Since the smallest of us outweighed her by 50 pounds you would think we had the advantage. One a**whipping later We ALL knew differently and I have never forgotten the lessons learned that day.

So in summary I would advise to try anything you have opportunity to try. If it works, then add it to your arsenal. If it doesn't then you have lost nothing except a few hours of exercise.
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PostSubject: Re: Question regarding grapple vs. strike   Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:46 pm

Crossfire the Crusader wrote:
I am a firm believer in the KISS principle though - Keep It Sweet & Simple. Even when my skill level was higher than it is now, I chose NOT to use the fancier kicks and such outside of sparring in class simply because it was not necessary. A well placed punch or a simple front snap kick work well enough for ost encounters. On one occasion I used a sidekick to take out a knee, but every other time I have fought I had no need for fancy footwork.


Word. Moreover, fancy flips and excessive movement are going to tire you out faster. That junk takes energy! Keep your moves efficient.

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PostSubject: Re: Question regarding grapple vs. strike   Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:45 pm

I've always thought that the style of fighting depended on the body type you have...Some of us can't do the whole "Knock out your opponent with a single punch." or "Use brute strength to pin your opponent to the floor". I'm not the strongest person. However, given the option to grapple or to strike, I prefer to grapple. I've learned a few ways to pin an opponent. Plus, it makes it easier for you in court. And if you place yourself in the right position, a grapple can be maintained quite effectively.
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PostSubject: Re: Question regarding grapple vs. strike   Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:15 pm

Golden Valkyrie wrote:
I've always thought that the style of fighting depended on the body type you have...Some of us can't do the whole "Knock out your opponent with a single punch." or "Use brute strength to pin your opponent to the floor". I'm not the strongest person. However, given the option to grapple or to strike, I prefer to grapple. I've learned a few ways to pin an opponent. Plus, it makes it easier for you in court. And if you place yourself in the right position, a grapple can be maintained quite effectively.


Word 2. Judo wasn't created by football linebackers! And the ever popular Gracie Jiu Jitsu wasn't developed with the 7ft basketball player in mind. Really, every fighting system on the planet is "customized". They're the products of specific individuals with specific body dimensions in specific physical environments. I'm not *just* a tall guy at 6'4". My arms and legs are disproportionately long for my already above average height. But how many creaters of of fighting systems do you think were 6'4"? Approximately roughly none. For me, strikes are where it's at. Grappling has rarely been necessary.

However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't have knowledge of both. I have no intention of taking someone to the ground with me but that doesn't mean he isn't going to be trying! You want to know atleast enough to survive the encounter, get out of whatever hold/lock and back on your feet.

To put it simply, would your weapon of choice be a sword if you had no arms?

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Last edited by JohnnyVegas on Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Question regarding grapple vs. strike   Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:52 pm

If you do not have strength on your side, maybe you could focus on striking points.

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PostSubject: Re: Question regarding grapple vs. strike   Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:58 pm

Golden Valkyrie wrote:
I've always thought that the style of fighting depended on the body type you have...Some of us can't do the whole "Knock out your opponent with a single punch." or "Use brute strength to pin your opponent to the floor". I'm not the strongest person. However, given the option to grapple or to strike, I prefer to grapple. I've learned a few ways to pin an opponent. Plus, it makes it easier for you in court. And if you place yourself in the right position, a grapple can be maintained quite effectively.


Grappling doesnt depend on strength as much as leverage. You use your opponents strength against them for throws and body mechanics for joint locks and pins.

And I for one have never knocked out anyone with a single punch, but HAVE stopped a conflict with a well targeted punch to the throat. My success has been more from the ability to TAKE punishment rather than to inflict punishment.

My advice is to train for STAMINA. It doesnt matter how fast you are, how limber you are, how high you can kick or how hard you can hit if you cant go ten rounds with your opponent. When I was training regularly I used a method where I worked out in five minute rounds with a one minute rest period between them. During the training time I would push myself as hard as I could on one technique (punch, kick, block, etc) and not stop for ANY reason until the timer went off. I stopped doing this after being hit by a drunk driver, but plan to incorporate it back into my training.

ALSO train your mind to accept that you are going to get hurt. If you think you are gonna dodge or block everything then the first time you get sucker punched in the mouth you'll find yourself doubting everything you know. Anyone who knows me will tell you that it ticks me off royally when I get hit in the mouth and I actually fight harder. I usually dont even feel the hit until afterward because it makes me so angry at the time. Had I NOT been taught to expect to get hit I dont think I would have made it as long as I have in the security business and department of corrections.
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